A Friend’s Notes on the Uses of Alcohol in the Bible

MedusaMy great friend and now pastor of FBC Gunter, TX, Jack Newton, spoke about why Christians should abstain from drinking alcohol recently. Following the presentation, an inquiring member wondered how to address the passages in the Bible which speak of wine and strong drink, sometimes without approbation. So Jack compiled the passages, categorized them, then wrote up his observations in a one page conclusion. My own argument, which is completely compatible with Jack’s, is in my post from last year entitled, “Capital T-Total: Why Abstinence from Alcohol.” Jack’s argument is immediately below, ending with a list of the passages he considered:

The Uses of Alcohol in the Bible
by Jack Newton

Overview
There are four categories where the words “wine” and “strong drink” are utilized in the Bible. The first three categories deal with the usage of alcohol and the fourth is other mentions of the words without a teaching on their usage.

The first category is that of the recreational use of alcohol. In this section it can be noted that there is NO positive example or teaching that endorses the recreational use of alcohol. There are some examples and teaching that are neutral or unclear but those are very few and in no way an endorsement of recreational use (Nehemiah 2:1 for example). It is easy to see the negative effects of the usage of alcohol in this way. People did things that were detrimental and hurtful due to their inebriated state (Genesis 9:21, 19:33, and Habakkuk 2:5 for example). This section also shows in a very positive light, those who refused to engage in this type of drinking (Jeremiah 35:2-14 and Daniel 1:8 for example). Proverbs 23 is the definitive teaching on this type of alcohol usage. It teaches that the wise approach to avoid the problems that alcohol brings into a person’s life is to avoid it altogether (Proverbs 23:31). Ephesians 5:18 makes it clear that the Christian is to be under the influence (filled with) the Holy Spirit rather than alcohol.

The second category is ceremonial use. Alcohol was used in ceremonies, feasts, and weddings. Wine was poured out in the drink offering (Exodus 29:40 for example). The person who took the vow of the Nazirite was to abstain from using alcohol for the length of their vow (Numbers 6:3, 20). Wine was also brought to the temple as an offering (tithe) to the Lord (Numbers 18, Deuteronomy 14:23, 26, 18:4 for example). It was also part of the wedding ceremony and feast (John 2). All of these are specific uses of the alcohol before the Lord and again are in no way an endorsement of its recreational usage.

Third there is the medicinal use of alcohol. There are only a few of these verses but they show that alcohol can be used for legitimate physical and emotional needs. This is not an opening for its abuse but a teaching that undergirds what we already know about the use of alcohol in certain medicines.

Finally there are those verses that mention alcohol but are not teachings or examples of its use. These verses fall into several different types. The first consists of the verses that acknowledge that alcohol was consumed but there is no teaching either positive or negative (Genesis 27:25 and Ruth 2:14 for example). The second are the verses that talk about the effects of alcohol but are not teachings on its usage (Psalm 4:7, Psalm 104:15 and Zechariah 10:7 for example). These verses deal with the euphoric effect alcohol has on those who consume it but they are in NO WAY an endorsement of its recreational use. Third, alcohol is used comparatively with something else. The best examples of this are in the Song of Solomon. “Your love is better than wine” (Song of Solomon 1:2). This is not actually a statement about wine at all, but a statement of the intoxicating nature of the love mentioned. It is also used to compare to the wrath, anger and judgment of God (Revelation 14:10 and 19:15). Fourth, alcohol is used to represent the provision or judgment of God (Proverbs 3:10 for an example of provision and Jeremiah 25:15 for an example of judgment). Finally, there are many mentions of alcohol that do not fit into any of the above categories or types (Job 32:19 and Matthew 9:17 for example).

In all of the different mentions of the words “wine” and “strong drink” there are some usages of alcohol that are allowed, mandated, and recommended in the Scriptures. It is important to study the passages in context and depth, but NONE of these usages are recreational. Therefore, the prudent and wise thing for Christians today would be to abstain from recreational usage of alcohol.

Recreational Use of Alcohol
Genesis 9:21
He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent.
Genesis 9:24
When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him,
Genesis 19:32
Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father.”
Genesis 19:33
So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father. He did not know when she lay down or when she arose.
Genesis 19:34
The next day, the firstborn said to the younger, “Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine tonight also. Then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father.”
Genesis 19:35
So they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.
1 Samuel 25:37
In the morning, when the wine had gone out of Nabal, his wife told him these things, and his heart died within him, and he became as a stone.
2 Samuel 13:28
Then Absalom commanded his servants, “Mark when Amnon’s heart is merry with wine, and when I say to you, ‘Strike Amnon,’ then kill him. Do not fear; have I not commanded you? Be courageous and be valiant.”
Nehemiah 2:1
[ Nehemiah Sent to Judah ] In the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was before him, I took up the wine and gave it to the king. Now I had not been sad in his presence.
Esther 1:7
Drinks were served in golden vessels, vessels of different kinds, and the royal wine was lavished according to the bounty of the king.
Esther 1:10
[ Queen Vashti’s Refusal ] On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha and Abagtha, Zethar and Carkas, the seven eunuchs who served in the presence of King Ahasuerus,
Esther 5:6
And as they were drinking wine after the feast, the king said to Esther, “What is your wish? It shall be granted you. And what is your request? Even to the half of my kingdom, it shall be fulfilled.”
Esther 7:2
And on the second day, as they were drinking wine after the feast, the king again said to Esther, “What is your wish, Queen Esther? It shall be granted you. And what is your request? Even to the half of my kingdom, it shall be fulfilled.”
Esther 7:7
[ Haman Is Hanged ] And the king arose in his wrath from the wine-drinking and went into the palace garden, but Haman stayed to beg for his life from Queen Esther, for he saw that harm was determined against him by the king.
Esther 7:8
And the king returned from the palace garden to the place where they were drinking wine, as Haman was falling on the couch where Esther was. And the king said, “Will he even assault the queen in my presence, in my own house?” As the word left the mouth of the king, they covered Haman’s face.
Job 24:11
among the olive rows of the wicked they make oil; they tread the winepresses, but suffer thirst.
Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.
Proverbs 21:17
Whoever loves pleasure will be a poor man; he who loves wine and oil will not be rich.
Proverbs 23:30
Those who tarry long over wine; those who go to try mixed wine.
Proverbs 23:31
Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly.
Proverbs 31:4
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink,
Ecclesiastes 2:3
I searched with my heart how to cheer my body with wine—my heart still guiding me with wisdom—and how to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was good for the children of man to do under heaven during the few days of their life.
Isaiah 5:11
Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them!
Isaiah 5:12
They have lyre and harp, tambourine and flute and wine at their feasts, but they do not regard the deeds of the LORD, or see the work of his hands.
Isaiah 5:22
Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine, and valiant men in mixing strong drink,
Isaiah 22:13
and behold, joy and gladness, killing oxen and slaughtering sheep, eating flesh and drinking wine. “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”
Isaiah 24:9
No more do they drink wine with singing; strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
Isaiah 28:1
[ Judgment on Ephraim and Jerusalem ] Ah, the proud crown of the drunkards of Ephraim, and the fading flower of its glorious beauty, which is on the head of the rich valley of those overcome with wine!
Isaiah 28:7
These also reel with wine and stagger with strong drink; the priest and the prophet reel with strong drink, they are swallowed by wine, they stagger with strong drink, they reel in vision, they stumble in giving judgment.
Isaiah 56:12
“Come,” they say, “let me get wine; let us fill ourselves with strong drink; and tomorrow will be like this day, great beyond measure.”
Jeremiah 35:2
“Go to the house of the Rechabites and speak with them and bring them to the house of the LORD, into one of the chambers; then offer them wine to drink.”
Jeremiah 35:5
Then I set before the Rechabites pitchers full of wine, and cups, and I said to them, “Drink wine.”
Jeremiah 35:6
But they answered, “We will drink no wine, for Jonadab the son of Rechab, our father, commanded us, ‘You shall not drink wine, neither you nor your sons forever.
Jeremiah 35:8
We have obeyed the voice of Jonadab the son of Rechab, our father, in all that he commanded us, to drink no wine all our days, ourselves, our wives, our sons, or our daughters,
Jeremiah 35:14
The command that Jonadab the son of Rechab gave to his sons, to drink no wine, has been kept, and they drink none to this day, for they have obeyed their father’s command. I have spoken to you persistently, but you have not listened to me.
Daniel 1:5
The king assigned them a daily portion of the food that the king ate, and of the wine that he drank. They were to be educated for three years, and at the end of that time they were to stand before the king.
Daniel 1:8
[ Daniel’s Faithfulness ] But Daniel resolved that he would not defile himself with the king’s food, or with the wine that he drank. Therefore he asked the chief of the eunuchs to allow him not to defile himself.
Daniel 1:16
So the steward took away their food and the wine they were to drink, and gave them vegetables.
Daniel 5:1
[ The Handwriting on the Wall ] King Belshazzar made a great feast for a thousand of his lords and drank wine in front of the thousand.
Daniel 5:2
Belshazzar, when he tasted the wine, commanded that the vessels of gold and of silver that Nebuchadnezzar his father had taken out of the temple in Jerusalem be brought, that the king and his lords, his wives, and his concubines might drink from them.
Daniel 5:4
They drank wine and praised the gods of gold and silver, bronze, iron, wood, and stone.
Daniel 5:23
but you have lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven. And the vessels of his house have been brought in before you, and you and your lords, your wives, and your concubines have drunk wine from them. And you have praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood, and stone, which do not see or hear or know, but the God in whose hand is your breath, and whose are all your ways, you have not honored.
Hosea 4:11
whoredom, wine, and new wine, which take away the understanding.
Hosea 7:5
On the day of our king, the princes became sick with the heat of wine; he stretched out his hand with mockers.
Hosea 7:14
They do not cry to me from the heart, but they wail upon their beds; for grain and wine they gash themselves; they rebel against me.
Joel 1:5
Awake, you drunkards, and weep, and wail, all you drinkers of wine, because of the sweet wine, for it is cut off from your mouth.
Habakkuk 2:5
“Moreover, wine is a traitor, an arrogant man who is never at rest. His greed is as wide as Sheol; like death he has never enough. He gathers for himself all nations and collects as his own all peoples.”
Romans 14:21
It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.
Ephesians 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,
1 Timothy 3:8
[ Qualifications for Deacons ] Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.
Titus 2:3
Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good,

Ceremonial Use of Alcohol
Genesis 14:18
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. (He was priest of God Most High.)
Exodus 29:40
And with the first lamb a tenth seah of fine flour mingled with a fourth of a hin of beaten oil, and a fourth of a hin of wine for a drink offering.
Leviticus 10:9
“Drink no wine or strong drink, you or your sons with you, when you go into the tent of meeting, lest you die. It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations.
Leviticus 23:13
And the grain offering with it shall be two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, a food offering to the LORD with a pleasing aroma, and the drink offering with it shall be of wine, a fourth of a hin.
Numbers 6:3
he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried.
Numbers 6:20
and the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD. They are a holy portion for the priest, together with the breast that is waved and the thigh that is contributed. And after that the Nazirite may drink wine.
Numbers 15:5
and you shall offer with the burnt offering, or for the sacrifice, a quarter of a hin of wine for the drink offering for each lamb.
Numbers 15:7
And for the drink offering you shall offer a third of a hin of wine, a pleasing aroma to the LORD.
Numbers 15:10
And you shall offer for the drink offering half a hin of wine, as a food offering, a pleasing aroma to the LORD.
Numbers 18:12
All the best of the oil and all the best of the wine and of the grain, the first fruits of what they give to the LORD, I give to you.
Numbers 18:27
And your contribution shall be counted to you as though it were the grain of the threshing floor, and as the fullness of the winepress.
Numbers 18:30
Therefore you shall say to them, ‘When you have offered from it the best of it, then the rest shall be counted to the Levites as produce of the threshing floor, and as produce of the winepress.
Numbers 28:7
Its drink offering shall be a quarter of a hin for each lamb. In the Holy Place you shall pour out a drink offering of strong drink to the LORD.
Numbers 28:14
Their drink offerings shall be half a hin of wine for a bull, a third of a hin for a ram, and a quarter of a hin for a lamb. This is the burnt offering of each month throughout the months of the year.
Deuteronomy 12:17
You may not eat within your towns the tithe of your grain or of your wine or of your oil, or the firstborn of your herd or of your flock, or any of your vow offerings that you vow, or your freewill offerings or the contribution that you present,
Deuteronomy 14:23
And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.
Deuteronomy 14:26
and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
Deuteronomy 15:14
You shall furnish him liberally out of your flock, out of your threshing floor, and out of your winepress. As the LORD your God has blessed you, you shall give to him.
Deuteronomy 16:13
[ The Feast of Booths ] “You shall keep the Feast of Booths seven days, when you have gathered in the produce from your threshing floor and your winepress.
Deuteronomy 18:4
The first fruits of your grain, of your wine and of your oil, and the first fleece of your sheep, you shall give him.
Deuteronomy 29:6
You have not eaten bread, and you have not drunk wine or strong drink, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.
Judges 13:4
Therefore be careful and drink no wine or strong drink, and eat nothing unclean,
Judges 13:7
but he said to me, ‘Behold, you shall conceive and bear a son. So then drink no wine or strong drink, and eat nothing unclean, for the child shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb to the day of his death.’”
Judges 13:14
She may not eat of anything that comes from the vine, neither let her drink wine or strong drink, or eat any unclean thing. All that I commanded her let her observe.”
1 Samuel 1:24
And when she had weaned him, she took him up with her, along with a three-year-old bull, an ephah of flour, and a skin of wine, and she brought him to the house of the LORD at Shiloh. And the child was young.
1 Chronicles 9:29
Others of them were appointed over the furniture and over all the holy utensils, also over the fine flour, the wine, the oil, the incense, and the spices.
2 Chronicles 31:5
As soon as the command was spread abroad, the people of Israel gave in abundance the first fruits of grain, wine, oil, honey, and of all the produce of the field. And they brought in abundantly the tithe of everything.
Ezra 6:9
And whatever is needed—bulls, rams, or sheep for burnt offerings to the God of heaven, wheat, salt, wine, or oil, as the priests at Jerusalem require—let that be given to them day by day without fail,
Ezra 7:22
up to 100 talents of silver, 100 cors of wheat, 100 baths of wine, 100 baths of oil, and salt without prescribing how much.
Nehemiah 8:10
Then he said to them, “Go your way. Eat the fat and drink sweet wine and send portions to anyone who has nothing ready, for this day is holy to our Lord. And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength.”
Nehemiah 10:37
and to bring the first of our dough, and our contributions, the fruit of every tree, the wine and the oil, to the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and to bring to the Levites the tithes from our ground, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all our towns where we labor.
Nehemiah 10:39
For the people of Israel and the sons of Levi shall bring the contribution of grain, wine, and oil to the chambers, where the vessels of the sanctuary are, as well as the priests who minister, and the gatekeepers and the singers. We will not neglect the house of our God.”
Nehemiah 13:5
prepared for Tobiah a large chamber where they had previously put the grain offering, the frankincense, the vessels, and the tithes of grain, wine, and oil, which were given by commandment to the Levites, singers, and gatekeepers, and the contributions for the priests.
Nehemiah 13:12
Then all Judah brought the tithe of the grain, wine, and oil into the storehouses.
Isaiah 25:6
On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.
Nehemiah 13:15
In those days I saw in Judah people treading winepresses on the Sabbath, and bringing in heaps of grain and loading them on donkeys, and also wine, grapes, figs, and all kinds of loads, which they brought into Jerusalem on the Sabbath day. And I warned them on the day when they sold food.
Isaiah 28:7
These also reel with wine and stagger with strong drink; the priest and the prophet reel with strong drink, they are swallowed by wine, they stagger with strong drink, they reel in vision, they stumble in giving judgment.
Jeremiah 35:2
“Go to the house of the Rechabites and speak with them and bring them to the house of the LORD, into one of the chambers; then offer them wine to drink.”
Jeremiah 35:5
Then I set before the Rechabites pitchers full of wine, and cups, and I said to them, “Drink wine.”
Jeremiah 35:6
But they answered, “We will drink no wine, for Jonadab the son of Rechab, our father, commanded us, ‘You shall not drink wine, neither you nor your sons forever.
Jeremiah 35:8
We have obeyed the voice of Jonadab the son of Rechab, our father, in all that he commanded us, to drink no wine all our days, ourselves, our wives, our sons, or our daughters,
Jeremiah 35:14
The command that Jonadab the son of Rechab gave to his sons, to drink no wine, has been kept, and they drink none to this day, for they have obeyed their father’s command. I have spoken to you persistently, but you have not listened to me.
Ezekiel 44:21
No priest shall drink wine when he enters the inner court.
Daniel 5:2
Belshazzar, when he tasted the wine, commanded that the vessels of gold and of silver that Nebuchadnezzar his father had taken out of the temple in Jerusalem be brought, that the king and his lords, his wives, and his concubines might drink from them.
Daniel 5:4
They drank wine and praised the gods of gold and silver, bronze, iron, wood, and stone.
Daniel 5:23
but you have lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven. And the vessels of his house have been brought in before you, and you and your lords, your wives, and your concubines have drunk wine from them. And you have praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood, and stone, which do not see or hear or know, but the God in whose hand is your breath, and whose are all your ways, you have not honored.
Daniel 10:3
I ate no delicacies, no meat or wine entered my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, for the full three weeks.
Hosea 9:4
They shall not pour drink offerings of wine to the LORD, and their sacrifices shall not please him. It shall be like mourners’ bread to them; all who eat of it shall be defiled; for their bread shall be for their hunger only; it shall not come to the house of the LORD.
Amos 2:8
they lay themselves down beside every altar on garments taken in pledge, and in the house of their God they drink the wine of those who have been fined.
Amos 2:12
“But you made the Nazirites drink wine, and commanded the prophets, saying, ‘You shall not prophesy.’
Micah 2:11
If a man should go about and utter wind and lies, saying, “I will preach to you of wine and strong drink, “he would be the preacher for this people!
Zechariah 9:17
For how great is his goodness, and how great his beauty! Grain shall make the young men flourish, and new wine the young women.
Luke 1:15
for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.
Luke 7:33
For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’
John 2:3
When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
John 2:9
When the master of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom
John 2:10
and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.”

Medicinal Use of Alcohol
2 Samuel 16:1-2
[ David and Ziba ] When David had passed a little beyond the summit, Ziba the servant of Mephibosheth met him, with a couple of donkeys saddled, bearing two hundred loaves of bread, a hundred bunches of raisins, a hundred of summer fruits, and a skin of wine. And the king said to Ziba, “Why have you brought these?” Ziba answered, “The donkeys are for the king’s household to ride on, the bread and summer fruit for the young men to eat, and the wine for those who faint in the wilderness to drink.”
Proverbs 31:6
Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress;
Luke 10:34
He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him.
1 Timothy 5:23
(No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

Other Passages Mentioning Alcohol
Genesis 27:25
Then he said, “Bring it near to me, that I may eat of my son’s game and bless you.” So he brought it near to him, and he ate; and he brought him wine, and he drank.
Genesis 27:28
May God give you of the dew of heaven and of the fatness of the earth and plenty of grain and wine.
Genesis 27:37
Isaac answered and said to Esau, “Behold, I have made him lord over you, and all his brothers I have given to him for servants, and with grain and wine I have sustained him. What then can I do for you, my son?”
Genesis 49:11
Binding his foal to the vine and his donkey’s colt to the choice vine, he has washed his garments in wine and his vesture in the blood of grapes.
Genesis 49:12
His eyes are darker than wine, and his teeth whiter than milk.
Deuteronomy 7:13
He will love you, bless you, and multiply you. He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, your grain and your wine and your oil, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock, in the land that he swore to your fathers to give you.
Deuteronomy 11:14
he will give the rain for your land in its season, the early rain and the later rain, that you may gather in your grain and your wine and your oil.
Deuteronomy 28:39
You shall plant vineyards and dress them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes, for the worm shall eat them.
Deuteronomy 28:51
It shall eat the offspring of your cattle and the fruit of your ground, until you are destroyed; it also shall not leave you grain, wine, or oil, the increase of your herds or the young of your flock, until they have caused you to perish.
Deuteronomy 32:14
Curds from the herd, and milk from the flock, with fat of lambs, rams of Bashan and goats, with the very finest of the wheat—and you drank foaming wine made from the blood of the grape.
Deuteronomy 32:33
their wine is the poison of serpents and the cruel venom of asps.
Deuteronomy 32:38
who ate the fat of their sacrifices and drank the wine of their drink offering? Let them rise up and help you; let them be your protection!
Deuteronomy 33:28
So Israel lived in safety, Jacob lived alone, in a land of grain and wine, whose heavens drop down dew.
Joshua 9:4
they on their part acted with cunning and went and made ready provisions and took worn-out sacks for their donkeys, and wineskins, worn-out and torn and mended,
Joshua 9:13
These wineskins were new when we filled them, and behold, they have burst. And these garments and sandals of ours are worn out from the very long journey.”
Judges 6:11
[ The Call of Gideon ] Now the angel of the LORD came and sat under the terebinth at Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, while his son Gideon was beating out wheat in the winepress to hide it from the Midianites.
Judges 7:25
And they captured the two princes of Midian, Oreb and Zeeb. They killed Oreb at the rock of Oreb, and Zeeb they killed at the winepress of Zeeb. Then they pursued Midian, and they brought the heads of Oreb and Zeeb to Gideon across the Jordan.
Judges 9:13
But the vine said to them, ‘Shall I leave my wine that cheers God and men and go hold sway over the trees?’
Judges 19:19
We have straw and feed for our donkeys, with bread and wine for me and your female servant and the young man with your servants. There is no lack of anything.”
Ruth 2:14
And at mealtime Boaz said to her, “Come here and eat some bread and dip your morsel in the wine.” So she sat beside the reapers, and he passed to her roasted grain. And she ate until she was satisfied, and she had some left over.
1 Samuel 1:14
And Eli said to her, “How long will you go on being drunk? Put your wine away from you.”
1 Samuel 1:15
But Hannah answered, “No, my lord, I am a woman troubled in spirit. I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have been pouring out my soul before the LORD.
1 Samuel 10:3
Then you shall go on from there farther and come to the oak of Tabor. Three men going up to God at Bethel will meet you there, one carrying three young goats, another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a skin of wine.
1 Samuel 16:20
And Jesse took a donkey laden with bread and a skin of wine and a young goat and sent them by David his son to Saul.
1 Samuel 25:18
Then Abigail made haste and took two hundred loaves and two skins of wine and five sheep already prepared and five seahs of parched grain and a hundred clusters of raisins and two hundred cakes of figs, and laid them on donkeys.
2 Kings 6:27
And he said, “If the LORD will not help you, how shall I help you? From the threshing floor, or from the winepress?”
2 Kings 18:32
until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of grain and wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of olive trees and honey, that you may live, and not die. And do not listen to Hezekiah when he misleads you by saying, The LORD will deliver us.
1 Chronicles 12:40
And also their relatives, from as far as Issachar and Zebulun and Naphtali, came bringing food on donkeys and on camels and on mules and on oxen, abundant provisions of flour, cakes of figs, clusters of raisins, and wine and oil, oxen and sheep, for there was joy in Israel.
1 Chronicles 27:27
and over the vineyards was Shimei the Ramathite; and over the produce of the vineyards for the wine cellars was Zabdi the Shiphmite.
2 Chronicles 2:10
I will give for your servants, the woodsmen who cut timber, 20,000 cors of crushed wheat, 20,000 cors of barley, 20,000 baths of wine, and 20,000 baths of oil.”
2 Chronicles 2:15
Now therefore the wheat and barley, oil and wine, of which my lord has spoken, let him send to his servants.
2 Chronicles 11:11
He made the fortresses strong, and put commanders in them, and stores of food, oil, and wine.
2 Chronicles 32:28
storehouses also for the yield of grain, wine, and oil; and stalls for all kinds of cattle, and sheepfolds.
Nehemiah 5:11
Return to them this very day their fields, their vineyards, their olive orchards, and their houses, and the percentage of money, grain, wine, and oil that you have been exacting from them.”
Nehemiah 5:18
Now what was prepared at my expense for each day was one ox and six choice sheep and birds, and every ten days all kinds of wine in abundance. Yet for all this I did not demand the food allowance of the governor, because the service was too heavy on this people.
Job 1:13
[ Satan Takes Job’s Property and Children ] Now there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house,
Job 1:18
While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, “Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house,
Job 32:19
Behold, my belly is like wine that has no vent; like new wineskins ready to burst.
Psalm 4:7
You have put more joy in my heart than they have when their grain and wine abound.
Psalm 60:3
You have made your people see hard things; you have given us wine to drink that made us stagger.
Psalm 69:21
They gave me poison for food, and for my thirst they gave me sour wine to drink.
Psalm 75:8
For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup with foaming wine, well mixed, and he pours out from it, and all the wicked of the earth shall drain it down to the dregs.
Psalm 78:65
Then the Lord awoke as from sleep, like a strong man shouting because of wine.
Psalm 104:15
and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man’s heart.
Psalm 119:83
For I have become like a wineskin in the smoke, yet I have not forgotten your statutes.
Proverbs 3:10
then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.
Proverbs 4:17
For they eat the bread of wickedness and drink the wine of violence.
Proverbs 9:2
She has slaughtered her beasts; she has mixed her wine; she has also set her table.
Proverbs 9:5
“Come, eat of my bread and drink of the wine I have mixed.
Ecclesiastes 9:7
[ Enjoy Life with the One You Love ] Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.
Ecclesiastes 10:19
Bread is made for laughter, and wine gladdens life, and money answers everything.
Song of Solomon 1:2
[ The Bride Confesses Her Love ] She Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth! For your love is better than wine;
Song of Solomon 1:4
Draw me after you; let us run. The king has brought me into his chambers. Others We will exult and rejoice in you; we will extol your love more than wine; rightly do they love you.
Song of Solomon 4:10
How beautiful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much better is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your oils than any spice!
Song of Solomon 5:1
He I came to my garden, my sister, my bride, I gathered my myrrh with my spice, I ate my honeycomb with my honey, I drank my wine with my milk. Others Eat, friends, drink, and be drunk with love!
Song of Solomon 7:2
Your navel is a rounded bowl that never lacks mixed wine. Your belly is a heap of wheat, encircled with lilies.
Song of Solomon 7:9
and your mouth like the best wine. It goes down smoothly for my beloved, gliding over lips and teeth.
Song of Solomon 8:2
I would lead you and bring you into the house of my mother—she who used to teach me. I would give you spiced wine to drink, the juice of my pomegranate.
Isaiah 1:22
Your silver has become dross, your best wine mixed with water.
Isaiah 5:2
He dug it and cleared it of stones, and planted it with choice vines; he built a watchtower in the midst of it, and hewed out a wine vat in it; and he looked for it to yield grapes, but it yielded wild grapes.
Isaiah 16:10
And joy and gladness are taken away from the fruitful field, and in the vineyards no songs are sung, no cheers are raised; no treader treads out wine in the presses; I have put an end to the shouting.
Isaiah 24:7
The wine mourns, the vine languishes, all the merry-hearted sigh.
Isaiah 24:11
There is an outcry in the streets for lack of wine; all joy has grown dark; the gladness of the earth is banished.
Isaiah 29:9
Astonish yourselves and be astonished; blind yourselves and be blind! Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not with strong drink!
Isaiah 36:17
until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of grain and wine, a land of bread and vineyards.
Isaiah 49:26
I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh, and they shall be drunk with their own blood as with wine. Then all flesh shall know that I am the LORD your Savior, and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.”
Isaiah 51:21
Therefore hear this, you who are afflicted, who are drunk, but not with wine:
Isaiah 55:1
[ The Compassion of the LORD ] “Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
Isaiah 62:8
The LORD has sworn by his right hand and by his mighty arm:” I will not again give your grain to be food for your enemies, and foreigners shall not drink your wine for which you have labored;
Isaiah 63:2
Why is your apparel red, and your garments like his who treads in the winepress?
Isaiah 63:3
“I have trodden the winepress alone, and from the peoples no one was with me; I trod them in my anger and trampled them in my wrath; their lifeblood spattered on my garments, and stained all my apparel.
Isaiah 65:8
Thus says the LORD: “As the new wine is found in the cluster, and they say, ‘Do not destroy it, for there is a blessing in it,’ so I will do for my servants’ sake, and not destroy them all.
Isaiah 65:11
But you who forsake the LORD, who forget my holy mountain, who set a table for Fortune and fill cups of mixed wine for Destiny,
Jeremiah 13:12
[ The Jars Filled with Wine ] “You shall speak to them this word: ‘Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, “Every jar shall be filled with wine.”‘ And they will say to you, ‘Do we not indeed know that every jar will be filled with wine?’
Jeremiah 23:9
[ Lying Prophets ] Concerning the prophets: My heart is broken within me; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, like a man overcome by wine, because of the LORD and because of his holy words.
Jeremiah 25:15
[ The Cup of the LORD’s Wrath ] Thus the LORD, the God of Israel, said to me: “Take from my hand this cup of the wine of wrath, and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it.
Jeremiah 31:12
They shall come and sing aloud on the height of Zion, and they shall be radiant over the goodness of the LORD, over the grain, the wine, and the oil, and over the young of the flock and the herd; their life shall be like a watered garden, and they shall languish no more.
Jeremiah 40:10
As for me, I will dwell at Mizpah, to represent you before the Chaldeans who will come to us. But as for you, gather wine and summer fruits and oil, and store them in your vessels, and dwell in your cities that you have taken.”
Jeremiah 40:12
then all the Judeans returned from all the places to which they had been driven and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah at Mizpah. And they gathered wine and summer fruits in great abundance.
Jeremiah 48:33
Gladness and joy have been taken away from the fruitful land of Moab; I have made the wine cease from the winepresses; no one treads them with shouts of joy; the shouting is not the shout of joy.
Jeremiah 51:7
Babylon was a golden cup in the LORD’s hand, making all the earth drunken; the nations drank of her wine; therefore the nations went mad.
Lamentations 1:15
“The Lord rejected all my mighty men in my midst; he summoned an assembly against me to crush my young men; the Lord has trodden as in a winepress the virgin daughter of Judah.
Lamentations 2:12
They cry to their mothers, “Where is bread and wine?” as they faint like a wounded man in the streets of the city, as their life is poured out on their mothers’ bosom.
Ezekiel 27:18
Damascus did business with you for your abundant goods, because of your great wealth of every kind; wine of Helbon and wool of Sahar
Ezekiel 27:19
and casks of wine from Uzal they exchanged for your wares; wrought iron, cassia, and calamus were bartered for your merchandise.
Hosea 2:8
And she did not know that it was I who gave her the grain, the wine, and the oil, and who lavished on her silver and gold, which they used for Baal.
Hosea 2:9
Therefore I will take back my grain in its time, and my wine in its season, and I will take away my wool and my flax, which were to cover her nakedness.
Hosea 2:22
and the earth shall answer the grain, the wine, and the oil, and they shall answer Jezreel,
Hosea 9:2
Threshing floor and wine vat shall not feed them, and the new wine shall fail them.
Hosea 14:7
They shall return and dwell beneath my shadow; they shall flourish like the grain; they shall blossom like the vine; their fame shall be like the wine of Lebanon.
Joel 1:10
The fields are destroyed, the ground mourns, because the grain is destroyed, the wine dries up, the oil languishes.
Joel 2:19
The LORD answered and said to his people,” Behold, I am sending to you grain, wine, and oil, and you will be satisfied; and I will no more make you a reproach among the nations.
Joel 2:24
“The threshing floors shall be full of grain; the vats shall overflow with wine and oil.
Joel 3:3
and have cast lots for my people, and have traded a boy for a prostitute, and have sold a girl for wine and have drunk it.
Joel 3:13
Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Go in, tread, for the winepress is full. The vats overflow, for their evil is great.
Joel 3:18
“And in that day the mountains shall drip sweet wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the streambeds of Judah shall flow with water; and a fountain shall come forth from the house of the LORD and water the Valley of Shittim.
Amos 5:11
Therefore because you trample on the poor and you exact taxes of grain from him, you have built houses of hewn stone, but you shall not dwell in them; you have planted pleasant vineyards, but you shall not drink their wine.
Amos 6:6
who drink wine in bowls and anoint themselves with the finest oils, but are not grieved over the ruin of Joseph!
Amos 9:13
“Behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when the plowman shall overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes him who sows the seed; the mountains shall drip sweet wine, and all the hills shall flow with it.
Amos 9:14
I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit.
Micah 6:15
You shall sow, but not reap; you shall tread olives, but not anoint yourselves with oil; you shall tread grapes, but not drink wine.
Zephaniah 1:13
Their goods shall be plundered, and their houses laid waste. Though they build houses, they shall not inhabit them; though they plant vineyards, they shall not drink wine from them.”
Haggai 1:11
And I have called for a drought on the land and the hills, on the grain, the new wine, the oil, on what the ground brings forth, on man and beast, and on all their labors.”
Haggai 2:12
‘If someone carries holy meat in the fold of his garment and touches with his fold bread or stew or wine or oil or any kind of food, does it become holy?’” The priests answered and said, “No.”
Haggai 2:16
how did you fare? When one came to a heap of twenty measures, there were but ten. When one came to the wine vat to draw fifty measures, there were but twenty.
Zechariah 9:15
The LORD of hosts will protect them, and they shall devour, and tread down the sling stones, and they shall drink and roar as if drunk with wine, and be full like a bowl, drenched like the corners of the altar.
Zechariah 10:7
Then Ephraim shall become like a mighty warrior, and their hearts shall be glad as with wine. Their children shall see it and be glad; their hearts shall rejoice in the LORD.
Zechariah 14:10
The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem shall remain aloft on its site from the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.
Matthew 9:17
Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”
Matthew 21:33
[ The Parable of the Tenants ] “Hear another parable. There was a master of a house who planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a winepress in it and built a tower and leased it to tenants, and went into another country.
Matthew 27:34
they offered him wine to drink, mixed with gall, but when he tasted it, he would not drink it.
Matthew 27:48
And one of them at once ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine, and put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink.
Mark 2:22
And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins—and the wine is destroyed, and so are the skins. But new wine is for fresh wineskins.”
Mark 12:1
[ The Parable of the Tenants ] And he began to speak to them in parables. “A man planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a pit for the winepress and built a tower, and leased it to tenants and went into another country.
Mark 15:23
And they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it.
Mark 15:36
And someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, “Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.”
Luke 5:37
And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed.
Luke 5:38
But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins.
Luke 5:39
And no one after drinking old wine desires new, for he says, ‘The old is good.’”
Luke 23:36
The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine
John 4:46
[ Jesus Heals an Official’s Son ] So he came again to Cana in Galilee, where he had made the water wine. And at Capernaum there was an official whose son was ill.
John 19:29
A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth.
John 19:30
When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
Acts 2:13
But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Revelation 6:6
And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!”
Revelation 14:8
Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.”
Revelation 14:10
he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:19
So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Revelation 14:20
And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse’s bridle, for 1,600 stadia.
Revelation 16:19
The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.
Revelation 17:2
with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.”
Revelation 18:3
For all nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living.”
Revelation 18:13
cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls.
Revelation 19:15
From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

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22 Comments

  • Dr. Creamer,
    Good article and great stand against beverage alcohol. I thought some might be interested in the following information against the recreational use of a mind altering drug.

    There is a great new book out on this subject,
    Alcohol Today by Peter Lumpkins, Hannibal Books; 2009. Foreword by Jerry Vines, recommended by Paige Patterson, Hayes Wicker, Junior Hill, Jack Graham, Jim Richards, Brad Reynolds, O. S. Hawkins.

    Older books include:
    The Bible and its Wines by Charles Wesley Ewing, 1985.
    Oinos: A Discussion of the Bible Wine Question by Leon C. Field, Phillips & Hunt, New York; 1883.

    Jerry Vines and Adrian Rogers both have excellent sermons on the Bible and alcohol. Seems like a fellow by the name of W. A. Criswell did as well. Thanks again for your stand. More believers need to speak to this issue.
    David R. Brumbelow

  • I do wish to make it clear that my dear cousin David does not speak for the whole of my family.
    That being said:
    1) At what point does the consumption of alcohol for medicinal purposes such as 1 Timothy 5:23 become recreational.
    2) At what point do we add to the Law that God has prescribed?

  • Joel says:

    Ummm… can someone please define ‘recreational use’ in a way that excludes the kind of use demonstrated in the ‘feasts and weddings’ that Mr. Newton mentions above (second category)? I’m going to have to refer to my comments in your previous post- http://barrycreamer.com/2008/07/03/capital-t-total-why-abstinence-from-alcohol/#comments Also, my reply to Land and Duke: http://joelpatrick.wordpress.com/2008/06/09/the-christian-and-alcohol/

  • Joel,
    While I do not agree with the following definition, not do I find a significant basis for it: One can argue that the feasts are covered by the ceremonial law and that weddings are sacramental and also covered under the ceremonial law. Of course one would have to be something other than a protestant to argue the second half of that statement as baptism and the Lord’s supper are the only sacramental ordinances observed by the Protestant church (or post Protestant or radical reformation churches).

    I still maintain my second question: At what point do we add to the Law that God has prescribed? The rest of the argument about alcohol hangs on adding to the law.

  • Please pray for my beloved cousin R.K. He is in a far country and the entire family is devastated :-) .
    David R. Brumbelow

  • Ah yes I am in a country called Presbyterianism where we were not lead astray by the teachings of Darby, Brooks,Scofield, Chafer, Walvoord or Ryrie nor do we add to the law :) You too can come to the reformed side. You do not even have to sprinkle babies. We have cookies. Oh and beer and wine for those that chose to exercise the liberty that we have in Christ.

  • R.K.
    A Brumbelow Presbyterian! What is this world coming too? This must truly be the last days.

    I’ll stick to the cookies and unfermented wine.

    Don’t you know when you get to Heaven you’re going to be studying under Darby, Brooks, Scofield,
    Chafer, and Walvoord? Another Brumbelow, my dad, taught me that one day Jesus would return
    riding a white horse, with a sword in one hand and a Scofield Bible in the other hand.

    Please know that when you “come to yourself” you are always welcome back to the fold.
    Cousin David

    PS – Dr. Creamer, thanks for allowing this family reunion :-) .

  • Yes, Dr Creamer is a great guy, even if he is an Arminian, Classic Dispensational (you are still classic right? none of that new fangled progressive!) Libertarian free will, Molinist I still love him dearly. Never understood how my 2 favorite profs held such views different from mine. Oh and if you are actually reading this 2 things:

    1) Tell your down the hall neighbour (the follicle deficient one) he is still a Papist :)
    2) Could you please fill out Tim’s recommendation to RTS? Even if it is “It is the policy of our institution to not recommend anyone who is not a dispensationalist/pre-mill pre-trib/whatever the formal position of Criswell is” RTS would take that positively.

    As for you David, feel free to drop me a line on my blog (it is linked in my name) and you can tell me about your side of the Family.

  • barry says:

    Yes, I read these comments. I just don’t always have the opportunity to reply.
    Else my first reply would have been, “What on earth are you thinking, boy!” in reference to Kelly’s (R.K.’s) appeal to liberty to justify drinking alcohol. The one dead-dog certain truth about liberty in Christ is that it has nothing to do with and should never be capitalized for the purpose of justifying our self-satisfying behavior, whether otherwise sinful or not. You need to give another read to Galatians (particularly 5:13, if you don’t already have it in mind).
    I will share with Everett your sentiment about his papism, at which he will bristle with surprise since he has been rebutting Catholics on this site and by email ever since he did a program with me recently on the subject!
    And I’d be happy to fill out a reference for Tim—do I have one in need of completion?
    Take care, and straighten up; I’m with David in this exchange,
    Yours in peace,
    bkc

  • Dr Creamer,
    You know both me personally and my system of thought. Do you honestly believe for even one second that I would suggest that someone violate Galatians 5:13 (13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. KJV / 13For you were called to freedom, brothers.(A) Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love(B) serve one another. ESV). Specifically, I state that “flesh” here is in reference to the sinful nature of man and am thereby saved by not having been convinced that alcohol consumption is in itself a sinful act. Less generally I am not convinced by scripture that consumption of alcohol is sinful in recreation. I am convinced that drunkenness is inherently sinful and until it is shown to me to be otherwise I consider a prohibition against all alcohol in general or recreational alcohol without drunkenness to be a pharisaic hedge to the law. I do consider that there is a percentage of the population that has an inherent weakness to alcohol and for them abstinence may be fully warranted. It is therefore my conclusion that it does become a matter of continence as to the consumption of alcohol.

    Now as for Tim, RTS should have emailed you a link to provide an academic evaluation of Tim. He claims to have called you immediately before. I received my link for his character reference on Nov 5th. Yours should have arrived in a timeframe. The from reads: onlineapplication and the title should be “RTS Online Application”

    As for Dr. Berry :) I truly consider him as much a Papist as I consider myself a Pelagian. It is just a friendly jab at him for all those time he called me a dispensational Arminian. He knows I love him else I would not jab at him so.

  • R.K.,
    We do need to get together and discuss family lines. You can contact me at my blog or at nsbc77562@LWOL.com.

    In answer to your original questions:
    “1) At what point does the consumption of alcohol for medicinal purposes such as 1 Timothy 5:23 become recreational.
    2) At what point do we add to the Law that God has prescribed?”

    1. The consumption of alcohol for recreational purposes begins when it is one drop more than for medicinal purposes. In our modern day with modern medicines, alcohol probably has about zero medicinal uses anyway. Also, it is even questionable whether Paul was speaking of alcoholic or non-alcoholic wine. Unfermented wine has medicinal properties today and that would have been especially so in a day often characterized by poor diet, poor water, and no multi-vitamins. But, of course, we understand the possible need of using alcohol for strictly medicinal purposes.

    2. A strong case can be made that the Bible both directly and indirectly condemns beverage alcohol. Abstainers of a recreational mind altering drugs are obeying, not adding to God’s commands. By the way, would you consider being anti-slavery, adding to the law?

    In Bible times wine referred to alcoholic, non-alcoholic, and diluted wine. And yes, they could easily preserve wine in an unfermented state.
    David R. Brumbelow

  • In reply to 1) here you show your own hubris, had you gone with quality rather than quantity meaning rather than volume you would have had a position worth arguing, instead you chose quantity which requires the equivalent of Calculus to compute and would vary by so many dimensions that you decide to shield yourself from possible sin so as to avoid things that God has put here and further expand it such as to not merely abstain but judge them sinful.

    This leads me to the post text of your second point the issue of Slavery. If slavery is the law of the land, then saying that slavery is a sin is adding to the law. If slavery is illegal by the law of the land then it is covered by the obedience to the governance that God has placed over us.

    As to the early text, no you are wrong, If the Bible directly condemned alcohol we would not even be having this conversation, Christ would not have made wine, Paul would have advised Timothy that deacons should be ones that avoided alcohol not ones who were not given to much wine, or “????????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???????? ?? ???? ????? ??????????? ?? ?????????????” if you would prefer. I could go on but it only takes one example to defeat an E proposition and I have given you two, you will attempt to contradict my I proposition by claiming an equivocation in ???? and we will return the circle again.

  • barry says:

    Wow.
    Your ethic is insufficient if it cannot acknowledge the moral (not legal or cultural) repugnance of slavery.
    I find it remarkable that non-prescriptive passages which are not about the consumption of alcohol govern your doctrine regarding alcohol rather than the one passage in the Bible which IS prescriptively about the consumption of alcohol. It’s as if you would justify establishing covenants by cutting animals in half, or say, it actually IS okay for men to kiss (equivocation intended) each other, since there are individual examples of such things happening.
    It is a square, not a circle. And, simply as an exemplary response to your volume-based third paragraph, the command “not to be given to drunkenness” absolutely cannot be construed (through inversion, conversion, or any other technique) to imply that it is okay to be given to wine.
    Hmm.
    The level of commitment to defending the use of alcohol among those who disagree with T-Totality is remarkable to me, but perhaps no greater than my own level of commitment to defending abstinence. But then again, I don’t mind being a pot, if you don’t mind being a kettle.
    Your friend.

  • The repugnance of slavery is shown in the treatment of slaves, not in its institution. If a slave is well treated as a brother in Christ should be, provided for in all ways and choses his own situation why is it morally repugnant? There are rules in scripture regarding such people where they chose to be a slave for various reasons and then after their debt was paid decided to continue on in the same fashion. Some of my own ancestors made similar choices from the stories I hear of them.

    Tell me Dr Creamer where is this one prescriptive passage which bans the use of all alcohol? You know me, I am more than willing to acknowledge my mistakes and take correction when it is shown that I am wrong. I have already acknowledged drunkenness as a sin.

    You yourself claimed at the beginning of this page that “In all of the different mentions of the words “wine” and “strong drink” there are some usages of alcohol that are allowed, mandated, and recommended in the Scriptures.” that statement alone should warn you against total abstinence. I have no issue with people being teetotal, I do have an issue when you try and build a hedge where scripture places none. To me your arguments are equivalent to that of the Pharisees determining how many steps can be taken on the Sabbath because anymore is work. Still a better example would be what kinds of lighting can be used in a synagogue because making fire on the Sabbath is also work, so it must be a particular kind of fire that burns long enough to last through the sabbath.

    I suspect that you hold to a position where any consumption of alcohol is drunkenness. I have never heard you explicitly say such but is that your position?
    Can you explain why God would not say that a deacon should abstain from alcohol if that was His intent? Your argument is much like if God had said deacons should not drive over 75mph and so you say that no christian should drive.

  • R.K.,
    Abraham Lincoln said whenever someone extols the virtues of slavery it made him want to ask that person if slavery is so good, would you like to volunteer to be a slave? Lincoln also said alcohol has many defenders but no defense.

    The Bible never says Jesus made alcoholic wine, just wine. Now you can interpret it to be strong alcoholic wine, but that is your interpretation, not you just taking the Bible for what it says. I admit that my view is also an interpretation in believing that Jesus turned water into new, non-alcoholic wine. Just like He does every year in the vineyard, although with a slower process. But I can back up my view with evidence and other commentators who believed such; going back to Chrysostom and Augustine. Remember they had different kinds of wine in Bible times, just like we have all different kinds of drinks today from strongly or weakly alcoholic to non-intoxicating drinks.

    Why jump to the conclusion that Jesus went to a drunken party and made over 100 gallons more of a strong intoxicating drug? That just doesn’t fit with what the Bible teaches about Jesus; or what the Bible teaches period.

    The Bible directly condemns wine in Proverbs 20:1, “wine IS a mocker.” It didn’tt say the abuse of wine is a mocker, but wine itself is a mocker. By the way, unfermented wine is not a mocker, only the fermented kind.

    They did not have a word for alcohol so Solomon gives a detailed description of intoxicating wine in Proverbs 23 and says of that kind of wine, don’t even look at it.

    We are commanded to be sober in 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8; 2 Timothy 4:5, 1 Peter 1:13; 4:7; 5:8. The first drink ends your sobriety. We are not commanded to be half sober. When it comes to the use of beverage alcohol – its use is abuse. The whole point is the drug effect.

    Your point about deacons and driving. Perhaps a better example would be a dad telling his 16 year old son not to drive 90 mph through a school zone; so the teenager drives 85 mph. Do you have to spell out every detail?

    Another question, if you are in a country that has legalized cocaine and marijuana, is it OK for a Christian to use them as recreational mind altering drugs, if they do so in moderation?
    David R. Brumbelow

  • David,
    Abraham Lincoln was noted for his Biblical scholarship? Your appeal to authority is negated.

    I am going to ignore the most of your post as I have already covered it. A few issues however: fermentation in wine can only be stopped by removal of the active yeast. Today the process we use is called pasteurization, without pasteurization there is alcohol content in wine well before it hits the first wineskin. Since you have already stated that any alcohol is sinful we are faced with one of 3 options:
    1) You are incorrect in your belief that any, meaning not zero, amount of alcohol is sinful
    2) Christ made grape juice and kept it below the active temperature range for fermentation to begin until the acidity in the consumers stomaches dispatched it or granted it some antibiotic process as yet unknown. This does not inherently mean this position is wrong, for certainly Christ could have done so.
    3) Christ induced people to sin.

    Now of these three I can certainly say that number 3 is false as it contradicts the whole of scripture.

    Where did I, or anyone else in this page, say anything about “Jesus went to a drunken party and made over 100 gallons more of a strong intoxicating drug?” Nowhere have you proved that wine even alcoholic (though not fortified) wines are at most 18% alcohol and that is with modern strains of yeast. No, From archaeological evidence I would understand wine to be 5-10% alcohol nowhere near what you are suggesting, though for you 5-10% may be “strong intoxicating”.

    As to your reply to my example:
    While the Bible certainly make use of hyperbole, however are you really going to suggest that in the case of deacons requirements the Bible uses hyperbole? If so, I seriously suggest you reconsider your hermeneutical stance.

    Dr. Creamer has the training and logic that if his arguments are true he will convince me. Unfortunately my dear cousin, your position is different from his. I perceive Dr. Creamers position as pharisaical but with merciful intent. Your position is simply not logically tenable.

    Now off to finish my note on James for class in the morning

  • R.K.,
    Forgive me that I am not up to your level of debate. I’ll just try to stumble along.

    Despite your negation of Honest Abe, I suspect many will continue to be impressed by his wisdom.

    Your assumption that wine could not be preserved without fermentation, until pasteurization was discovered, is simply false. Most of us today don’t know how to preserve food and drink without pasteurization, refrigeration, electricity – so we project our ignorance onto the people of ancient times. Ancient people knew well how to preserve fruit, drink, meat, vegetables and grain.

    A couple of quick examples. One method was to boil fresh, expressed wine to about 1/3 of its original consistency. This would easily keep without fermenting, and would later be mixed with water to drink.

    “Concentrating grape juice down by heating is still used to make the popular shireh of modern Iran and was known to the ancient peoples of Mesopotamia as well as the Greeks and Romans. It enables fruit to be preserved, and, diluted with water, it produces a refreshing, nonalcoholic beverage.” -Ancient Wine: The Search For The Origins Of Viniculture by Patrick E. McGovern, Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey, 2003; p. 54.

    A second way was to simply preserve fresh grapes until time to use them (Genesis 40:11). If you have never tried fresh pressed grapes, it tastes great; Pharaoh would agree. The right kind of grapes stored under the right conditions (without refrigeration), keep fresh for months. These are not the regular grapes you buy in the store, but grapes known as “good keepers.” Old time gardeners can tell about some fruits and vegetables known for their keeping ability.

    As a matter of fact, in ancient times preserving unfermented wine was easier than preserving fermented wine. One big problem with keeping fermented wine was preventing it from becoming vinegar or acetic acid.

    So, don’t just assume all wine in the Bible was fermented wine, whether 5%, 12% or whatever.
    David R. Brumbelow

  • A couple of quick examples. One method was to boil fresh, expressed wine to about 1/3 of its original consistency. This would easily keep without fermenting, and would later be mixed with water to drink. – Nope, unless you concentrate the sugar to the point where it becomes completely preservative (was more than triple sugar content) this will not happen. Fresh pressed grapes will begin to ferment IMMEDIATELY. Your position is that any alcohol is sinful (which Jack has already stated is incorrect in his statement “In all of the different mentions of the words “wine” and “strong drink” there are some usages of alcohol that are allowed, mandated, and recommended in the Scriptures.”

    Your knowledge of history is also unfortunately skewed by your a priori statement that all alcohol is sinful, Because you believe that a priori, all other things must allow that. My maternal grandfather made wine and so I am very familiar with the practice. The way to preserve wine is to allow it to ferment until the yeast is killed by the alcohol content and then keep it in an airtight vessel. At 18% modern strains of yeast die from the alcohol, in ancient times the strains had not been bred for such tolerance. The only other was to stop fermentation is to keep the temperature below a critical level or above a critical level inhibiting the growth. If the heat is applied in an open vessel it will almost certainly become re infested with yeast where it will then start to re-ferment. If you want to remove alcohol from wine you can make mulled wine by heating it to drive of alcohol but it will not drive off all alcohol.

    “As a matter of fact, in ancient times preserving unfermented wine was easier than preserving fermented wine. One big problem with keeping fermented wine was preventing it from becoming vinegar or acetic acid” this is done by sealing off oxygen/air from the vessel, it is actually very easy and was in ancient times using stones and bee’s wax.

    It comes down to this to advance your position with me you must prove that it is possible to keep wine completely unfermented: That is not a single molecule of alcohol present. A far more tenable would be to state it qualitatively rather than quantitatively. So that answer to my question you originally chimed in on in that case would be intent not volume. ie When one consumes alcohol for any reason other than ceremony or medicinally.

    Lastly this will be the last time I respond to this so there will be no need to “stumble along” I know I am not going to change Dr. Creamer’s position, I knew that from the beginning, my only intent was to engage the debate.

  • barry says:

    I’d like to nudge this well-read interchange back on track if you don’t mind. Kelly: the “all alcohol is sinful” characterization is wrong only in that the wording allows some fudging on what the discussion is about. So allow me to suggest (David may or may not agree) a replacement statement, and a couple of brief justifications. First, justifications: no one thinks pouring alcohol over a wound is sinful; and no one is arguing that the alcohol produced in our blood when we eat sugar is sinful. Second, a replacement phrase for debate: consuming potentially intoxicating substances (in this case, beverages) is sinful. That phrase should require a more honest response.

  • Dr. Creamer,
    I agree that, “consuming potentially intoxicating substances (in this case, beverages) is sinful.” I greatly appreciate your stand. I don’t know the finer points or terminology of debate; but I know when something is true or false. For someone to say the ancients did not have unfermented wine available throughout the year is just plain false.

    I suppose R.K. wants to insist that if one molecule of alcohol exists, then I lose the debate. I think most will easily understand my previous statement and not strain it too much. The legal definition of non-alcoholic wine is that it have less than one half of one percent of alcohol. One non-alcoholic wine maker says their product has less alcohol than most fresh squeezed orange juice. So minute amounts of alcohol do not worry most of us very much. Not many are protesting OJ.

    R.K.,
    You are simply wrong about boiling wine down to preserve it unfermented. The quote above is from Patrick E. McGovern, one of the foremost authorities on ancient wine. He is also pro fermented wine. Yet he freely acknowledges that this drink is a refreshing non-alcoholic drink, that it is popular, and was well known in ancient times.

    By the way, I suppose you could say meat begins to rot immediately upon the death of a cow or deer, but that does not mean they had to eat rotten meat in ancient times. They knew how to preserve meat; they knew how to preserve wine. They knew how to preserve wine either way, fermented or unfermented. There is an ancient account of wine being so thick it had to be scraped from the wineskin.

    Both methods I mentioned above are valid ways to have alcohol-free or virtually, legally, non-alcoholic wine throughout the year. There are others.

    For example, non-intoxicating wine was made from dried grapes or raisins. This was done by re-hydrating the raisins by soaking, boiling, and or pressing. The Talmud mentions raisin wine. The Jews mention it today.

    Another, fermented wine could also easily be made unfermented by just boiling it.

    Also, Columula, in Roman times, mentions another method of preserving unfermented wine or “must” and said this method would easily preserve it for a year as unfermented wine. There were still other methods of preserving unfermented wine. Roman writers mentioned unfermented or non-alcoholic wine (Peter Lumpkins‘ book quotes some of them). Nehemiah mentioned many kinds of wine (Nehemiah 5:18)

    That wine was preserved unfermented is not opinion, it is fact.

    I know they preserved alcoholic wine in ancient times, often in amphora with the inside sealed with resin or pitch or wax and sealed off on top by olive oil and maybe a further seal by clay, etc. It was very important the amphora not be tilted too much, hence the pointed bottom and special shelves or holes to set them in. But fermented wine going bad (acetic acid) was a recurring problem until relatively modern methods of necked and corked glass bottles. Preparing unfermented wine by boiling it down to 1/3 to 1/5 its original consistency, made it much easier to keep than fermented wine.

    I would be every interested in your answer to my question above. If recreational, mind-altering drugs like cocaine and marijuana were legal, would it be OK for Christians to use them in moderation?
    David R. Brumbelow

  • In my last comment the name should have been spelled, “Columella.” Yesterday was a long day.

    Another quote some might find interesting.

    Bersalibi, an Arabian believer in medieval times, stated in a tract on the Eucharist, “When good wine is not to be obtained, the juice of the grapes may be taken; or the liquor expressed from dried grapes or raisins.”

    It should be remembered in our day that “liquor,” like “wine,” can refer to either an alcoholic or non-alcoholic liquid. Dr. George Whitefield Samson pointed out this reference to “good wine” is referring to unfermented wine and that Pliny and others referred to unfermented wine in this way.
    David R. Brumbelow

  • Gerry says:

    Jack – Just wonder what your position is on whether sex is ceremonial vs. recreational between husband and wife???

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